"citrus" (roamin)
03/10/2020 at 14:05 • Filed to: unnecessary car shopping without E90M3
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"citrus" (roamin)
03/10/2020 at 14:05 • Filed to: unnecessary car shopping without E90M3 | 1
| 14 |
The mustang I drove
In the past few days I’ve driven a 2020 mustang GTcs and a 2018 Camaro SS
Both were 6 speeds, fully loaded with $45k+ stickers. They were both fast, they both had cramped interiors with bad visibility, and both felt... Kind of washing machine esque?
Its hard to describe, but they felt like they were going fast because they were programmed to do it. I got the rear end squirming on the mustang (tcs on obv because it was a test drive) and it calmed down with no drama at all, of course I’m not trying to crash, but it just felt robotic.
They both felt disconnected from the road, and the shifters and clutch pedal s felt really light and soft.
Oddly, I got the same feelings about a friend’s 2019 Civic I had to drive once, it more appliancelike.
I guess I typed all these words because I think I don’t like new cars. Is that a problem? Am I crazy?
(PS, if someone is looking for a new 2018 loaded yellow Camaro SS I know a place that wants to move it real bad lol)
Arrivederci
> citrus
03/10/2020 at 15:15 |
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Discounts on the Camaro have been massive. Local dealer is offering the base Camaro LT new for something like $18k. I’m sure that has bundled incentives, but it’s a ton of cash on the hood.
They have a base SS as well that was in the high $20k range.
Ash78, voting early and often
> citrus
03/10/2020 at 15:16 |
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A light clutch pedal is the limp handshake of the automotive world.
Nothing inherently wrong with it. But something just feels wrong.
Shane Moore
> citrus
03/10/2020 at 15:16 |
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I feel you, its hard to explain but if feels like they removed the drama from driving. I bought the 6.2L Raptor twice because the new ecoboost while faster was too well behaved. Same with my Chevy SS, yeah it was fast but it didn’t have near the “sense of speed” that my 200hp Thunderbird SC had. Now I have the instant torque of electric and for now it feels like more than a novelty, unlike a high horsepower number that doesn’t translate to to road feel very well.
Future next gen S2000 owner
> citrus
03/10/2020 at 15:48 |
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This is a culmination of evolution. The cycle goes as such
Gen 1: Great car. A bit rough around the edges. Huge amounts of character.
Gen 2: Great car. A bit more refined than its predecessor. Faster in everyway. More liveable.
Gen 3: Much more refined. Not as raw as the ori ginal. Infinitely more liveable. Much faster.
Gen 4: Super fast. Very liveable. Feels artificial, disconnected a bit.
Rinse and repeat. See M3's. Mustangs. 911. Corvette.
More refined and liveable is the antithesis of rough and engaging.
Speed
> citrus
03/10/2020 at 16:09 |
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I took a bolt-on CTS-V Wagon down the drag strip once and came away with a very similar feeling. It was fast. I could tell because the speedometer told me so. It sounded good, looked good, rode great and would be a pleasant way to bomb down the Autobahn or on a supercharged National Lampoon’s style road trip, but it didn’t excite me.
It wasn’t visceral. It wasn’t dramatic. It never gave me a, “Hey y’all watch this!” feeling. It was too damn good at it’s job. It gave me nowhere near the excitement that my stalled, geared and bolt-on ‘98 Z28 does.
Connectivity wins over isolation when we’re talking spirited driving. Hands down. Road trip or a highway/city daily drive? Give me the V. Otherwise, I’ll pass.
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citrus
> Shane Moore
03/10/2020 at 16:23 |
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I have a Caprice, which is basically a slower, less refined SS, and it feels more "alive" than either of those cars felt to me. It's hard to explain, it's not even just the non existent sense of speed
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citrus
> Speed
03/10/2020 at 16:24 |
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Ive been wondering if the only way to scratchy 2+2 itch is to find a decent 4th-gen
Whats prices on firebird formulas look like these days...?
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citrus
> Future next gen S2000 owner
03/10/2020 at 16:26 |
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It’s what I love about my 99 corvette (yeah at the time they had numb steering, but compared to now it’s like having your hands on the road lol)
Its just the right amount of raw and polished, the mgw shifter is heavy and short, as is the clutch, and since I’m the asshole with a muffler delete, there’s real loud noise to it.
Both pony cars were loud, but it sounded almost forced
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citrus
> Arrivederci
03/10/2020 at 16:27 |
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Im pretty sure if I was a serious buyer they would move it for 12 under sticker, it's been sitting there a long time
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Speed
> citrus
03/10/2020 at 17:28 |
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They’ve got plenty faults, but man they’re a blast to drive and I’d argue the fastest stock car you can buy for around $5,000. They can do whatever you need. Drag racing, autocross, road racing, hauling trees or tables (hatch and seats folded down), couches on the roof, crossing streams, braving NEPA winters, whatever. I got caught in flood waters so deep once I could slap the water if I hung my arm out the window. I’ve owned this one for over 10 years and daily drove it most of those. I finally spun a rod bearing so it’s out of commission until further notice.
The coolest part was when I bolted on a full exhaust on a few months after buying it and went from running 13.4's at 104 bone stock to 12.9's at 107 with no other changes. Before hurting the engine it would do easy 12.30s by adding just gears, stall converter and traction. I think it had 11.90s in it with the drag wheels and good weather/track prep.
When I finally blew the engine I wasn’t mad at it. It got me home! I can’t count the amount of neglected maintenance (broke college days), 10k+ mile oil change intervals and bounces off the redline this car endured and shrugged off over the past decade of constant abuse.
I’m not quite that hard on them anymore, but the amount of hoonage I put my Z28 through was astonishing. EVERYTHING held up until the rod knock. Even then, the engine didn’t lock up until I tried to crank the car and move it after parking it.
The weak 7.5" 10-bolt and 4L60e even put up with my mess. The transmission surprised me more than anything considering I drove it in the hills of Northeastern PA for 7 years with a billet 3500 stall converter installed.
The cars have plenty faults; don’t mistake that. You’ll recognize the things that bother you in particular if you take one for a spin. Results may vary, you know? That said, they’re fantastic platforms that really don’t quite get the credit they deserve.
Here’s a really good One Take that sings the road handling prowess of the F-Body. Matt left this review truly surprised and with a newfound appreciation for what these cars are capable of. The SLA front suspension and torque arm rear is REALLY good at a lot of things when properly set up. On top of that, these things can tuck 315mm tires ON ALL FOUR CORNERS.
I actually found my car right here on the LS1tech classifieds: https://ls1tech.com/forums/market/vehicles/pontiac-52/firebird-m595
Said One Take and a couple shots of my ‘98 Z28 below:
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Shane Moore
> citrus
03/10/2020 at 17:30 |
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Alive is a great way to phrase it.
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citrus
> Speed
03/10/2020 at 19:09 |
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315s on all 4 is my dream lol
Thisismydisplayname
> Speed
03/10/2020 at 20:34 |
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The first gen V was a great car and so much less refined than the second gen, but had a better visceral experience behind the wheel. The second gen was much more tame until you stomped on it, then it’s just like you said fast but still not crazy. The 3rd gen... it doesn’t even have a stick offered, nuff said.
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Thisismydisplayname
> citrus
03/10/2020 at 20:35 |
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First gen V is a great option. Four usable seats but still get a great driving experience.